Crye-Cry
Family Newsletter
ISSUE 1
 Back to Newsletters
 VOL 5
Jan/Feb/Mar
agcrye@bellsouth.net 
2001

 
 
 
January 2001
“WINTER”
 
  June 23rd is coming up fast and I am getting ready for the “Photo Reunion” that will be held just Southeast of Cleveland.  I am in hopes that you have set your calendar for this wonderful opportunity.  I have been setting items aside for sharing and I realized that I really don’t have any old photos, well, maybe one, but I do have a family Bible from 1842 for the family of Jonathan Crye, who marries Edith L. Ayers/Pierce.  This Bible has many children, including my ancestor, Joseph Henderson Crye, listed.  I am excited about sharing this with you and making copies of the hand-written entries for others to take back with you when you leave.  What are you planning to bring?

     I did receive a photo of the Lightfoot family, and of John M. Smith, descendant of the Wisconsin Crye’s across internet waves, so, I will have these available.  I am in hopes you are looking through your closet and photo albums for items to include in this memorable reunion.

    The plans are to have a photographer here to take pictures of the pictures, catalog them, and then put them on CD for easier storage.  I can print them in black and white on plain paper for those who do not have access to a computer.  The photographer tells me we can get about 20 pictures to a floppy and I don’t know exactly how many on a CD.  With this new technology everyone can bring your pictures, lay them out with identifying marks, and after it is all over, take them back home with you.  No chance of them getting lost or damaged.

    We have reserved an outdoor pavilion on 64 Hwy with access to a church fellowship hall that will seat 100.  Directions are simple:  from I-75 to our location.  Coming from Knoxville on I-75, take Exit 25, turn right at the bottom of the ramp, go 4.4 miles and take a right onto Ocoee Exit East.  Go 4 miles and the Pavilion is on the right.  Signs will be posted.  Coming from Chattanooga on I-75, take Exit 25 and turn left at the bottom of the ramp.  Go 4.2 miles to Ocoee Exit East.  Go 4 miles and the Pavilion is on the right.  Signs will be posted.

    Just after the last newsletter was mailed I sent off several letters requesting information on the James Hawkins Crye/Winfield Scott Crye family.  I am in such hopes of getting a clear location of this family.  I have been told that Atlanta has the Soundex for 1880 for the individual states, so my goal is to go there.  I haven’t made it yet, but hope to before the reunion.

    I have already heard from several who plan to attend.  I am truly excited.  All paper products will be supplied, but please bring a covered dish so we can munch while we share.   Anita….
 


 
 

RESEARCH TIP

Don’t ignore neighbors on the Census Rolls

     Using census schedules that aren’t indexed is literally like looking for a needle in a haystack.  It means endless scanning pages of handwritten forms to find the listing for your family.  Indexes and the reproduction of some censuses on CD-ROM, have made that task much easier, but these innovations haven’t totally eliminated the tedium of the task.

     As hard as it may appear, that can be a positive thing.  Because finding your family on a census list is only one of the steps in your research.

     Just as a census gives a “snapshot” of your family at a specific moment in time, it gives a similar panoramic picture of the community in which they lived at that same moment.  Looking closer at that panoramic view can help you in your research.   For example, neighbors may have previously resided in the same locality as your family did, meaning you may be able to track their movements together.  Other neighbors may have served in the military at the same time, indicting they would appear in the same regimental records.  Some censuses note religious preference, allowing you to group and track families by church.

     Whatever the category, compare the census data on your family with that of their neighbors, and see what other interests they had in common besides living in the same town or county.

     Have you ever wondered how our ancestors traveled from one place to another; from Pennsylvania to North Carolina; from North Carolina into Indiana and Wisconsin?  Well here is a timetable and sort of an explanation of how they were able to travel so far.


EVERTON'S FAMILY HISTORY NEWSLINE

This Day in History: 6 June 1833

The Baltimore & Ohio railroad began operation in 1828 with horse-drawn carriages, added steam locomotives in 1831, and hosted a presidential ride by Andrew Jackson from Ellicott Mills to Baltimore on 6 June 1833. The new Iron Horse quickly proved popular in both Europe and America, with 1,800 miles of track laid on the Continent by 1840, and 3,000 miles of rail in the United States by that same date.

Over the next two decades the American railway system really took off, resulting in approximately 30,000 miles of track in operation before the American Civil War. Speed was one factor in the popularity of the nascent rail system, but the ability to move large quantities of goods (and people) inexpensively truly greased the wheels, so to speak.

The innovation of rail transportation revolutionized American and European life, making it easier to move a family's residence from any section of the country to another, enlarging markets for both manufactured and agricultural goods, and opening job markets that previously depended almost entirely on local workforces.

Railroads almost immediately formed both literal and virtual partnerships with shipping companies, European rail lines took emigrants from their hometowns all over the continent to main departure ports like Hamburg and Bremen.  Once in America (either the United States or Canada), the new immigrants took trains from the major port cities like Baltimore, Philadelphia and New York to both big cities (like Chicago) and small (like Springfield).  And by 1869 it was possible to travel all the way across the North American continent by train.

The institution of a widespread transpor-tation network forever changed the way people lived.  That change made it easier for them to move, to work, and to learn new ideas.  And not so coincidentally, made it just a little more difficult (in some ways) for us to trace our family trees.


HAVE YOU EVER HEARD YOU WERE
BLACK DUTCH?

     This article was sent to me because he had always heard that the Crye name came from Black Dutch.  Here is one explanation of what this phrase means.

Northeast Alabama Settlers
Vol XXXI, No 2, October 1992
Mystery of the “Black Dutch”  By Raymond G. Matthews
U.S. Reference Consultant  Family History Library
Salt Lake City, Utah
(Reprint from “Ancestor Update” Vol     No     Spring 1992

    The Library of Congress definition for “Black Dutch” says:  This term refers basically to Shepardic Jews, that is, those who lived in Spain during the Middle Ages.  Black refers to the dark or black hair in some cases, slightly darker complexion which was their Spanish heritage.  These people moved into and around the Lowlands, Belgium, the Netherlands, etc.  during the Middle Ages.  Some of them also found their way to England where they merged with the large synagogues in Sheffield, etc. As opposed to the Ashkenazim…the Shephards tried to merge with the general population in areas where they lived, basically so they would not be blamed and/or persecuted for adverse happenings in the country.  A result of this is that the “Black Dutch” can be found in regular genealogical sources (the few that exist for the Middle ages) rather than having to hunt down synagogue records for the time…The Reformed Dutch.  It was these later generation peoples who migrated to the West Indies and elsewhere, later settling in America.

    Inquiring of the prominent Jewish genealogist Rabbi Malcollm H. Stern if he had ever heard of the term, he said that he had never run across it.

    Research in the early records of the New Netherlands has not produced any reference to the “Black Dutch,” but the families seem to be appearing in the Trans-Appalachia area of Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio and Illinois in areas settled by the Germans and Swiss-Germans.

    The theory, supported by others, is that the “Black Dutch” may be Germans from Schwarzwald or Black Forest of Germany.  This area is along the Swiss Border.

    A new twist has been added recently from a researcher of Native American genealogy who insisted that “Black Dutch” was a term used to describe mixed Indian and Caucasians passing for white.  A person would be said to be “Black Dutch” indicating he had Indian ancestry.  This problem of pinning down the “Black Dutch” is that so far none of us has seen an actual family history or proven pedigree which states the family was “Black Dutch.”  The term always comes up in unwritten family tradition where great-grandmother or great-grandfather states that the family was of Black Dutch descent.

Contact:
Dutch Family Heritage Society * 2463 Ledgewood Drive * Salt Lake City, Utah 84084

     Have you ever wondered how to decide if it is the first cousin, once removed, or is it your second cousin?  Well the chart below can help.


A Chart for Figuring Relationships



 

 

Excerpt from “A Brief Sketch of a County Neighborhood”.

     On the Bradley County TN Web page Barbara Fagan has transcribed a small booklet written about the time Bradley County came to be.  The title is “A Brief Sketch of a Country Neighborhood” and in it there is a listing for George Battles.  Here is what it says:
Next is George Battles, who emigrated from Polk County some five or six years ago.  He is about thirty-five years of age and has several children, whose names I do not know.

 

"QUERRY"

     This is a query and response I have had through email.  If you have any information regarding this family, please contact Beverly or me and help us clear up this lost family.  Beverly McElroy <grannymc8@qwest.net>

     My husband's great great grandfather John McElroy was b. March l797 in Mecklenburg County, NC to parents William and Elizabeth unk McElroy.  He died in June or July in l865 in Cross County, AR.

     He was married 4 times, first to a lady named either Shy or Cry/Crye?  They had at least one known child and we believe this child was named Mary H. McElroy who I have found to have married a Robert King and they were listed in the Murray County, Ga. l850 census and with them in that household under the head of house being Robert King several children and a brother of hers (half brother) named Darling McElroy.

     I do not have proof of any of this information about who her mother really was but from another McElroy researcher who had been researching for over 25 years.  This is where I first got my information and she had referred to the fact she gained much of her information from records in Mecklenburg County, NC and from a Family Bible that was placed in the Ga. Archives.  This was either the McElroy or Stevenson family Bible.  She had put a lot of information in the McElroy newsletters that were published in the l970's but are no longer in existence, published by Kenneth Vance Graves.  She did tell me that she had tried to locate information on a marriage for our John McElroy to a Miss Shy with no results and that she had found a lot of Cry/Crye information in the Mecklenburg area but no marriage for this particular McElroy; however we have not found a lot of marriage records on the family anyway.

     Next, I personally found an article where there was a man with the surname of Harrison who had been appointed Guardian for three children and the children were named Mary McElroy and then names of two Crye male children.  As I recall Mary was the oldest and the two males were younger and I believe she was like maybe l3 at the time and they may have been like 9 and l0 or there abouts.  I think one of them was named Timothy but cannot recall for certain.  I did not print the message nor did I book mark the place I found that information.  I know it was not in a library that I found that tidbit, it came from the internet and the only place I can think of that I found this is in some database at the Everton Publishing site on the internet.

    The reasoning I have tried to come up with something is that I am trying to learn more about John McElroy's descendants from all of his wives.  I know that this Mary H. McElroy was most likely born in l8l8 according to the age given on the l850 census and that would fit alright for at that time John McElroy would have been 2l.

      I know that shortly thereafter he was married (again no marriage found by me yet) to a M.A. Belk who was the mother of at least 4 children, William B. b abt l823, Darling B. b abt l825, John C. b abt l827 and Paramelia Armintha b abt l829).  This is all from that Bible I mentioned that is in the Archives in Ga.  It is said that Mary A. Belk McElroy died and John McElroy married a 3rd time to a Mary Stevenson.  This union produced l0 children, the first being Andrew J. b abt l83l in Ga. and the last (my husband's great-grandfather named Licurgus McElroy b l85l in Arkansas.)

      Wife # 3 died in l859 in St. Francis County, AR.  In the l860 census John was not married again but he did marry a 4th time to Rachel McDuffy who was either divorced or widowed in St. Francis County, AR.  He died in l865 and he and wife Mary Stevenson McElroy are buried in the McElroy cemetery in a community by the same name near Wynne, Arkansas which is actually in Cross County as we know it now days.  Cross County was formed from part of St. Francis County in the year l862.

      What is funny is that I did not know that Mary H. McElroy King daughter of John and unk was in GA until about 4 months ago.  I had found her and her children listed on the l850 census in AR with her father and stepmother and their children. After learning of the l850 census in Murray Co. GA I became quite confused.  But after researching, learned that the census was taken in the summer time in GA and it was taken the l8th day of December that year in St. Francis Co. AR.  So have figured that she had gone to visit relatives for the Christmas holidays.  I have learned since as well that she is suppose to have ended up settling in the state of Louisiana probably in the Parish called Clebourne by l860 and we have also learned that her half brother Darling B. McElroy also settled in Claibourne Parish Louisiana, however, I located him and his wife and children in the Poinsett county, Arkansas census for l860 but then lost him again as well.  I know that in l860 that the children listed in the l850 census with Mary King with the McElroy family were still listed in the l860 census living with grandfather John McElroy without the mother Mary listed.  By l870 at least one if not two of those children are married and listed living in the same general area of the McElroy relations there in Arkansas so she definitely had strong family ties to her father John McElroy regardless of who her mother may have been.

     This is where all of this is coming from for now so you can see that I do not have that much on the surname of Cry/Crye but have this inner feeling that some of us here in our area call a gut feeling that I am about 95 percent sure that our great-grandfather’s half sister was indeed a child of a Miss Cry/e and John McElroy

      I do not know what the initial H. in her name stands for but it also makes me curious in my research efforts for if a man with the name of Harrison was appointed her guardian maybe the H. stands for Harrison (which maiden names of females were given as middle names to offspring in many families especially in those days.)  It also makes me very curious about something else in the McElroy family.  John McElroy son of William and Elizabeth unk. McElroy had a sister named Elizabeth H. McElroy and we do not know what the H. stands for in her name either nor do we know who his mother Elizabeth was before she married his father William McElroy.  Could the name of Harrison be a family connection on the McElroy side and not the Crye side and when John married the 2nd time to a M. Belk could a relative have taken the children into their care temporarily for whatever reason and maybe Mary H. McElroy King was a half sister to these two male Crye children.

If anyone has any answers to this family riddle, please help us out.


----------------------------------------------

     In the last newsletter I posed several questions regarding a Winfield Scott Crye, son of James & Eveline Melton Crye.  I had no proof of his name until I mailed off the newsletter.  Then a trip to the library brought a few things to my attention.  Court records found in the Bradley Co. TN Court House and stored in our local library revealed a court case in 1867-1868 between John Smith and Answell Phillips.  Depositions of Scott Cry, Sarah Ann Smith, A.J. Kerry, Mary J. Smith, Sarah E. Cox, John R. Cox, Daniel Romines, E. B. Fortner, G. W. Melton, James Crye, Thomas Epperson, Adam Carpenter, A. J. Kim, and T. R Waller.
Here is part of the deposition.  I think it is interesting.
Deposition of Scott Cry, witness for Smith in the above cause taken upon agreement of the parties in 21st day of December 1868, before the Clerk & Master at his office at the Court House in Cleveland in presence of the solicitors of both parties.
Winfield Scott Cry aged seventeen, a witness on behalf of the complainant in the original bill first introduced sworn and examined.

First Question:
 Are you acquainted with the parties to this suit
Answer:
 I am
Question:
 Are you acquainted with the land sold by Phillips to Smith and the same described in the original bill in this case?
Answer:
 I am.
Question:
Were you present at any time prior to the sale when the parties were talking about making the trade, if so, state fully anything you may have heard Phillips say to Smith about the water on said farm.
Answer:
 I was present when they was first talking bout it.  Phillips told Smith there was good water on the place and never failing springs.
Question:
 Was anything said between them about the health of the place, if so state what that was.
Answer:
 Mrs. Phillips told him the place was healthy and all as there was in the county.
Question:
 State anything you may know about the water on the place and also how the health has been on the place.
Answer:
 I know the water is not account this last summer.  Mr. Smith’s family has not had good health since they lived there.
Question:
 Who was living on the place at the time Phillips sold to Smith
Answer:
 Mr. Crye and Polly Cry.
Question:
 Did Phillips ever live on the place and if so, how long.
Answer:
 Phillips lived on the place but I have no idea how long.
Question:
 How far did Smith live from the place when he bought it?
Answer:
 I do not know.

------------------------------------------------
Cross Examination
Question:
 When did Phillips sell the land in question to Smith.
Answer:
 I do not know that
Question:
 When did you hear the conversation between Phillips and Smith to which you alluded in your direct examination?
Answer:
 I do not remember when it was.
Question:
 Where were the parties when the conversation took place and who was present?
Answer:
 They were at a mill called Hughes Mill.  Phillips and Mr. Smith and Myself.  Buck Hinesford was there part of the time.
Question:
 How long have you know Smith and where has he lived since you first knew him.
Answer:
 I have known Smith about three years.  He has lived on the farm in dispute ever since I knew him.
Question:
 How long have you known him when you heard the conversation you spoke of.
Answer:
 It was the first time I ever saw him to know him.
Question:
 How did you happen to hear the conversation and what circumstances makes you recall it?
Answer:
 I had come to mill.  Smith rode up and Phillips was at the mill.  I had come to mill.  I heard them talking.  I paid some attention to them but very little.
Question:
 How long have you known the farm in dispute?
Answer:
 I have known the farm between two and three years.
Question:
 How do you know that the water was no account this last summer?
Answer:
 I was going to school there and had to use it.
Question:
 What was wrong with the water?
Answer:
 It was just no account is all I can tell you.
Question:
 How many springs did you use water out of on this farm last summer?
Answer:
 One
Question:
 You know nothing of the water on the place prior to last summer do you?
Answer:
 I knew the water some two or three years.
Question:
 How did you know the water, simply by passing by it or by using, prior to last summer?
Answer:
 I knew it by using it.
Question:
 When did you drink the first water out of that spring?
Answer:
 I first used it when I was quite a lad.
Question:
 When did you first know the water to be no account?
Answer:
 I has been some two or three years ago.
Question:
 If you have sworn the water to be no account two or three years, why did you say in answer to the 4th direct interrogatory that you knew it was no account last summer?
Answer:
 I had not paid so much attention to it before last summer.  I went to school and used it more.
Question:
 Where have you lived for the last three years and how far from Smith?
Answer:
 I lived on the head waters of Mill Creek, about a mile and a half from Smiths.
Question:
 How do you know that Smith’s family have been sickly since they lived there?
Answer:
 I am knowing of him losing two of his family directly after he moved there.
Question:
 Has he lost any since those two?
Answer:
 Not that I recollect of.  I have not heard of it if he has.
Question:
 Did you know Smith’s family before they moved on this farm.
Answer:
 No Sir.
Question:
 How many springs did you ever drink water out of on this farm?
Answer:
 One
Question:
 Do you say you do not know what was the matter of the water?
Answer:
 I do not know was the matter with the water.

Re-Examination by complainant.
Question:
 Where was the spring you spoke of and in what condition was it when you saw it last summer?
Answer:
 It was close to the house where Smith lives on the farm.  It was low and the stream was weak and the water warm.
Question:
 How many of the family of Mr. Smith’s been sick since he went there except the two who died.
Answer:
 More of them have been sick, but I cannot tell how many.

Re-Cross
Question:
 How do you know that more of the family were sick besides those that died?  Did you see them sick and what was the matter with them?
Answer:
 I did not see them and do not know what was the matter with them.

Winfield S. Cry (his mark)

James Hawkins Crye.

     In the last issue I discussed the James and Eveline Melton Crye family.  In a couple of the census Saphronie/Sapphine, daughter of James Crye has been enumerated with Adam Carpenter and Isabella.  One census lists her as a cousin to Adam and Isabella.  Doing specific research and internet questions, I have found that Adam Carpenter had a brother who came to Tennessee with him from North Carolina, Martin.

     Martin and Adam Carpenter lived close to each other in Bradley and Blount Counties in Tennessee.  They even fought in the Civil War together.

     In a book “Carpenter’s A Plenty” by Robert C. Carpenter, I find the book states:  Adam was born about 1815 and was alive in 1850 in Bradley Co. TN.  Adam married Isabella ________ who was born about 1820 in North Carolina, alive in 1850.  Adam received Lot #2 – 69 acres of land on Beaverdam Creek in the Land Division.  On September 21, 1838 (Lincoln Co. Deed Book 38 – p. 236), he deeded the 69 acres to his father-in-law George Hovis for $207.  In 1850 Adam is living two houses from his brother Martin in Bradley County.

     In the book mentioned above Adam sells his land to his father-in-law, George Hovis in Lincoln Co.  (Not sure if this is in Tennessee or NC)  I found a marriage for Adam and Isabella Melson in Blount Co. TN November 12, 1839.  I didn’t find any families listed as Melson, so I really believe this is a type and it should read Melton.  Apparently Adam was married prior to his marriage to Isabella Melton.  So, could Eveline Melton have had a daughter older than her three sons Calvin, George, and William?

     I have found where an Elizabeth Crye married in North Carolina and one of her daughters married a Carpenter.  Could this be the connection between these two families?

     John and Martha Jones Crye’s children married into the Carpenter name in Blount Co. TN.  Are these two families related?  Do the Carpenters, Crye’s and Meltons blend?  Does anyone have any information on Isabella Melton/Melson?

     It has been a quest for information on this family and so far, only questions have risen.

     I look forward to communication from the Blount Co. TN Crye’s to help me figure out this puzzle.

LETTERS

 
  Would anyone who attended the 1999 Crye reunion in Blount Co. TN. have any connection to a Matielda Ellen Crye b. July 1863 in Indiana. She married a William Harrison Wheeler in 1882.  They had children, Sarah, Richard Hugh, May L. Lola Saloma March 10, 1891, Wayne, William McKinley and Clifford Maywood b.Feb.21, 1899.  I know the family lived in Shirley, Indiana in 1900, later many of this family lived in Michigan.  I understand Matielda, who went by Ellen, lived in Flint, Michigan and had a restaurant.  I would appreciate hearing from any one who might know this family.  Maxine at mooreandmore@hotmail.com

  Yes, I would like to subscribe to the Crye family newsletter. My GGrandfather Thomas T. Stewart married Fannie or Francis Crye on 12/6/1896. in Claiborne Parish, La.  Thomas T. Stewart was born 1871/d.1937.  His wife Fannie or Francis Crye was born 1872/d.1932. Their son which is my Grandfather was Thomas Errol Stewart born 10/4/1905/d.6/1/1955. His wife (my Grandmother) was Nodie Eula Traylor born 7/25/1903/d.8/23/1963.  All are buried in the Haynesville Old Town Cemetery.  What I'm trying to do is get back further than my GGrandfather.  If you have information on my family I would appreciate it.  Thank You in advance.  Paulette Ezernack

  Looking for information on Rosamund Cry married to Charles W. Chase, possibly from Lynn, MA. They had at least 1 child born there, Fanny, born 5/16/1878.  duaneb@fujimed